I State of Ohio,
SS:
2 County of Cuyahoga

3 - - -

4 IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS

5

6 Herman Mark, et al,

7 Plaintiffs,
Case No 143795
8 VS

9 The Cleveland Clinic
Foundation,
10
Defendant
11

12 - - -

13 DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY R RUBIN, MD

14 THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 2, 1989

15 - - -

16 The deposition of Jeffrey R Rubin, MD, a witness

17 herein, called by the Plaintiffs for examination

18 under the Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure, taken

19 before me, Ivy J Gantverg, Registered Professional

20 Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of

21 Ohio, by agreement of counsel and without further

22 notice or other legal formalities, at University

23 Hospitals of Cleveland, 2074 Abington Road,

24 Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 10:35 am, on the

25 day and date above set forth


MORSE, GANTVERG & HODGE

2

1 APPEARANCES:

2 On behalf of the Plaintiffs:

3 Richard J Berris, Esq
Weisman, Goldberg, Weisman Kaufman
4 540 Leader Building
Cleveland, Ohio 44114
5
On behalf of the Defendant:
6
Gary H Goldwasser, Esq
7 Reminger & Reminger
113 St Clair Building
8 Cleveland, Ohio 44114
8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

1 7

18

19

2 0

21

2 2

2 3

2 4

2 5


MORSE, GANTVERG & HODGE

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1 JEFFREY R RUBIN, MD
2 a witness herein, called by the plaintiffs for
3 examination under the Rules, having been first duly
4 sworn, as hereinafter certified, was deposed and
5 said as follows:
6 CROSS EXAMINATION
7 BY MR  BERRIS:
8 Q Doctor, my name is Richard Berris, and I
9 represent the plaintiffs in this matter, Herman and
10 Alice Mark
11 I am going to ask you some questions today
12 about your review of this matter involving
13 Dr Hoogwerf and the Cleveland Clinic  If any
14 questions aren't clear or you don't understand them,
15 please let me know and I will rephrase the question,
16 okay?
17 A Yes
18 Q If you answer the question, I will assume you
19 did so because you understand the question, is that
2 0 f air?
21 A That is fair
22 Q_ Mr Goldwassec has given me a copy of your
23 curriculum vitae to help speed matters along I see
24 that you have authored or co-authored approximately
25 twenty-one articles

MORSE, GANTVERG & HODGE
4
1 A Yes
2 Q Without going through and wasting time, do
3 any of these articles deal with the subject matter
4 of the treatment of diabetic foot ulcers?
5 A Not specifically
6 Q_ Indirectly, any of them?
7 A Yes
8 Q_ How do they deal with it indirectly?
9 A Particularly the revascularization of
10 ischemic feet
11 Q_ Which articles deal with that subject matter?
12 A Indirectly, article number 7, that deals with
13 amputations and by-passes, with infection
14 Q_ Okay
15 A Number 12, distal by-passes; number 16;
16 number 17; number 18; and that is about it
17 Q_ Is most of your involvement with diabetics
18 with foot ulcers related to consultation after
19 medical management has failed?
20 A No, quite often I will get them without any
21 prior medical management
22 How is that?
23 You are are a vascular surgeon, correct?
24 A An internist will see a patient with an
25 ulcer, and they will refer the patient for my

MORSE, GANTVERG & HODGE
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1 evaluation and treatment
2 Q- And you treat the problem medically?
3 A Yes
4 Q- Why would an internist who is a medical man
5 refer a patient over to you for medical treatment?
6 A Well, I think quite a few of the general
7 internists, if they don't feel they have enough
8 expertise in the area, prefer to have it in
9 someone's hands who deal with it every day
10 Q- So you have a good deal of experience
11 treating these diabetic foot ulcers both medically
12 and surgically?
13 A Correct
14 9- Do you, when you are treating patients for
15 diabetic foot ulcers, periodically consult with
16 other physicians?
17 A Not normally Now, if their diabetes is not
18 under control, I will refer them to an
19 endocrinologist who specifically takes care of
20 diabetics
21 Q- Do you feel that you have greater experience
22 and knowledge in the treatment, the medical
23 treatment of diabetic foot ulcers than do
24 endocrinologists?
25 MR- GOLDWASSER: Objection How does

MORSE, GANTVERG & HODGE
6
1 he know what an endocrinologist knows about
2 diabetic foot ulcers, unless he knows what is
3 in -their heads?
4 Go ahead, you may answer over my
5 objection
6 A It varies There are endocrinologists taking
7 care of diabetic ulcers of the foot, and they do it
8 every day In this institution the endocrinologists
9 prefer to take care of their patients
10 Q Obviously in the situation we are talking
11 about here, Herman Mark, the diabetic foot ulcer of
12 Herman Mark was treated by an endocrinologist over
13 at the Cleveland Clinic, correct?
14 A Yes
15 Q- D